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Untitled

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Is Maria McKee's later success relevant to an article on Feargal Sharkey? There's a link to her page where this success should be noted.SomeOtherInsect (talk) 18:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"a stooge to the record industry"?

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What the hell does THAT mean? The phrasing implies that Sharkey is an accomplice in some sort of criminal act. Not very bloody NPOV, if you ask me. Ken Burch 00:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Ireland/Ireland

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His nationality must either be described as Northern Irish or British. He is not Irish, as that nationality relates to someone of the Republic of Ireland. I would prefer the location of his birth to state Northern Ireland, but given that he was born on the island of Ireland, I supposed it is not strictly a false statement to make. Tom Green (talk) 10:05, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If IP editor 158.143.181.94 thinks that their version is more accurate then they should explain it. Has Sharkey, for instance, self Identified as Irish rather than Northern Irish? Until they do this their edits are unsupported, and suggest that they are simply opinion. Continually adding them back in against consensus without any attempt to discuss is liable to get IP editor 158.143.181.94 blocked. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:16, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The IP editor 158.143.181.94 continues to change this page (and the Undertones page) without getting involved in any discussion. I'm reverting and it looks like a block might be required. srushe (talk) 16:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
More IP vandalism; page needs protecting. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 20:27, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As I have already pointed out Rms125a at your talk page describing someone born in Ireland as Irish People is NOT vandalism but a description that is widely used here on WP. Please refrain from using this in your edit summary or I will take this further. Bjmullan (talk) 21:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If it's OK with you Rms125a I will keep the conversions going here. Feel free to paste in the question you left at my talk page but for the life of me I can not understand why you just didn't continue the thread here.
For one, Tom Green doesn't know what he is talking about. To say someone born in Northern Ireland MUST be either Northern Irish or British is just rubbish. Under the Good Friday Agreement ANYONE born in NI can be an Irish citizen. I have not reverted anyone because I am comfortable with either NI or Irish People and BOTH are very valid. You cannot assume anything and until someone provides a WP:RS for what Feargal thinks he is I will not revert other edits. Just to make it clear the article Irish People is about ethnicity and not nationality. That in this case is NOT in dispute. If you want I can provide a number of examples of the use of the term Irish People in articles about Irish people. I will repeat, if you label edits like this again as vandalism I will report you. Bjmullan (talk) 22:17, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
RESPONSE TO BJ MULLAN:
As per BJ Mullan's request I am responding here. Below is a copy of my messages on his talkpage.

Feargal Sharkey

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Actually in this case the term "vandalism" was precisely appropriate; see the userpage and the talkpage of this IP vandal, whose prolific abuses have earned the IP (it's in a Belfast library) a one-year block by admin Daniel Case. I am well aware that the issue is contentious. That is why I am concerned when unregistered users make unexplained and uncorroborated changes, violating the fragile balance of consensus. In this case I did not assume good faith for good reason. I followed the rules on WP:DERRY and chastized another editor for going too far as you will see if you review the Sharkey edit history page. Yours, Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 18:57, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No response by BJ Mullan

Conundrum (ROI/NI) re Feargal Sharkey page

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BJ: I referred to the action as vandalism based on the page's history with anonymous IP users. I will quote some of your fellow Wikipedians (all registered users) from Sharkey's talkpage, as you evidently did not read the message which I left you (above):
  • His nationality must either be described as Northern Irish or British. He is not Irish, as that nationality relates to someone of the Republic of Ireland. I would prefer the location of his birth to state Northern Ireland, but given that he was born on the island of Ireland, I supposed it is not strictly a false statement to make. Tom Green (talk) 10:05, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
  • If IP editor 158.143.181.94 thinks that their version is more accurate then they should explain it. Has Sharkey, for instance, self Identified as Irish rather than Northern Irish? Until they do this their edits are unsupported, and suggest that they are simply opinion. Continually adding them back in against consensus without any attempt to discuss is liable to get IP editor 158.143.181.94 blocked. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 10:16, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
  • The IP editor 158.143.181.94 continues to change this page (and the Undertones page) without getting involved in any discussion. I'm reverting and it looks like a block might be required. srushe (talk) 16:52, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
BJ: It appears that you are monitoring the Sharkey page but doing nothing when different users change the nationality back and forth. You take offense at the terminology I used ("vandalism") but are doing nothing to positively address this ongoing situation. If I rv anonymous IP edits without using the word "vandalism", is that OK? I mean, with respect, you take offense at the word vandalism but don't care what or how I edit, otherwise? That is not logical. We all know how contentious the ROI/Northern Ireland conundrum is, but you should take a position and defend it, because otherwise the switching of Northern Irish to Irish to Northern Irish back to Irish will continue forever, in all likelihood. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 22:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
CONCLUSION:
  • a) I know perfectly well that natives of Northern Ireland are entitled to hold Irish citizenship, and this long predates the GFA, going back to the 1940s under de Valera's regime.
  • b) It is impossible to know for certain which nationality a native of Northern Ireland takes (i.e. British or Irish) although in most cases an educated guess suffices. In this case evidently there is no definitive evidence either way, which is why both sides are reverting "Northern Irish" to "Irish" back to "Northern Irish", ad infinitum and ad nauseum.
  • c) User BJ Mullan does not care which term is used, he appears to solely object to my use of the term "vandalism" in the edit summaries in question, despite the fact that unexplained reverts by unregistered users are always suspect, and, in this case, prolific abuses have earned one IP (it's in a Belfast library) a one-year block by admin Daniel Case, which I pointed out in my first message to BH Mullan to which he never bothered to respond nor appears to be concerned about.
  • d) " I will repeat, if you label edits like this again as vandalism I will report you" -- this reflects a decided lack of AGF which is not merited given the considerable time and attention which I dedicated to engage your attention on your talk page at your convenience. I am certainly not intimidated by such threats, and find them to be a display of at best immaturity, at worst ill will. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 01:38, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I refer editors to my comments above. No one cares what conclusions Wikipedia editors may reach on analysing the nationality of Feargal Sharkey. This is a very complicated area where everyone has a different thoughts, and they are all original research. That is why guidelines emphasize what the subject themselves prefer. Unless it can demonstrated with a cite that Sharkey prefers Irish over Northern Irish, there is no reason to change the more precise and informative "Northern Irish". --Escape Orbit (Talk) 21:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could Bjmullan please explain the new-found insistence on using an ethnic category in the lead sentence? Unless it can be specifically cited that Sharkey has a preference for being described as "Irish", describing him as "Northern Irish" is clearly preferable as it is both more precise and also defines his nationality. Bjmullan says that "Irish" in this context is being used as an indication of ethnicity. It is not usual practice to refer to a person's ethnicity in their lead without good reason. It is however, usual to refer to their nationality.

"Northern Irish" has been used on this page for some time and has been changed without consensus. Please change it back and discuss on the talk page. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 22:52, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Ireland is NOT a country. See lots of other talk pages for the argument on this subject, here is one example. As for using Irish people, this is a common method on WP and I will point you to two of many stable examples: Liam Neeson and Barry McGuigan. So unless you can provide a RS on his actual nationality I think this is the best solution. It is not normal to include the place of birth in the lede (as per the MOS) so adding NI here brings nothing to the party and is already covered in the opening sentence of the first main paragraph. Bjmullan (talk) 23:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I ever mentioned whether Northern Ireland is a country or not, nor is it relevant. I'm talking about Sharkey, and he is Northern Irish, calling him Irish in the lead leaves the reader guessing for the want of one extra word. Nor is it relevant what is on other articles. Please read the guideline here. He's been described as Northern Irish in this article for some while, so unless you can provide a RS that says differently]], there is no reason to change it. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 23:43, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps a better solution than linking him to the province of Northern Ireland would be to link to People of Northern Ireland? Bjmullan (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good compromise. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 18:08, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Bjmullan (talk) 19:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Troubles Restricted?

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Who decided that this article should have the Troubles Restricted noticed place on it? I am unable to find the discussion that lead to this. Bjmullan (talk) 13:14, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did, because people keep changing his nationality and so I think it falls under the scope (the restriction includes "British nationality in relation to Ireland"). If people want it removed, it can be, just thought it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm going to get put on probation for breaching it on Eamon de Valera, someone else clearly not involved in the Troubles. JonChappleTalk 13:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I for one think it should be removed and it should only have been put on in the first place after consensus was reached. Bjmullan (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
BTW the excellent edit by TomGreen should hopefully do away with the edit warring over his nationality. Bjmullan (talk) 14:10, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It was a cop-out. Anyway, feel free to remove it if you like. JonChappleTalk 14:12, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Putting the nationality thing to bed

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WkcHkRccOQ

Common sense is not something I see much of here on WP,

If anyone who feels Sharkey is IRISH, could you please follow this link.

1, Fergal formed a organisation called UK MUSIC to promote, BRITISH MUSIC. Hmmmm, how many people who identify themselves as Irish would be doing this ?

2, In the interview he raves about how great British music is.

Clearly identifies himself as British

VinDibs (talk) 12:12, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad common sense has prevailed. So can we take it that we determine the nationality of a person based on the industry he works in? I'm off to change Michael Schumacher's nationality to Italian as no real German would work for and win five world championship for such an Italian team. Or is this just pish? Bjmullan (talk) 12:22, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have really missed the point. Irish people DO NOT rave about Britishness or the quality of British music.VinDibs (talk) 11:38, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What utter bollox. --HighKing (talk) 11:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Irish people are two busy getting drunk to do anything as creative as music ;) 86.177.25.224 (talk) 17:08, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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From

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he is from donegal in ireland not from derry i know this because he is my grans cousin and they would go to church together 82.17.86.124 (talk) 23:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately your gran is not a reliable source. Reliable sources say otherwise. Canterbury Tail talk 00:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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